19 replies to this topic

[B Finnigan]

This has been mentioned before but be sure to check and see if you have a leaf spring shop in your area. I just bought 60 lbs of spring and 1560 U bolt for $10 (.16/Lbs). I got 1/4", 3/8" and some huge 1"x4" which will be enough for dozens of hawks and hatchets. I also found out the U bolts they use to bind the spring stack is 1560. So I got several 3/4 and 1" pieces. I will do a test HT on it to see how well it hardens. Better still they don't HT the bolts so you are getting them annealed whether new or used. The U bolts also do not get the stresses the springs do so you are not running any risks with buying used ones.

Even if you have a distance to travel to find one it's worth it to go and get a good stash. They just recycle the drops and they will make more money selling it to you then the recyclers will pay. You and the shop will come out ahead.

That is if you like 5160 as much as I do.

[Matt Bower]

Are the u-bolts 1560, or 5160? (I've never heard of 1560, but that doesn't mean there's no such thing.)

[B Finnigan]

I asked the manager since the scrap bin was full of them and most were new. He went and looked it up. I also looked it up when I got back to my office. AISI/SAE show a 15xx steel rating. The 15xx steels will have a Mn of 1-1.65%.

I was curious about the composition of the bolts given the size and assumed they were an alloy steel like 4140/42. Bill the manager said no they were a higher carbon steel. Then I was really curious and that is why he looked it up for me.

It will be cool to have a mid carbon steel in rounds (and cheap). Most of you know there is a big void in round stock, it's either alloy steel in the .35-.40 C range or it jumps up to drill rod at the 1% C range.

These are the U bolts for those of you that may not know what they are and what they do.



And there should be a lot of new drops available at any given shop. They bend and cut the threads on site. If they screw up the threads the bolt gets tossed. The rods are swaged thicker on each end before cutting the threads. Notice the threads are a larger dia then the rod.

My dad worked in a spring shop/forge for 27 years. I never once looked into what the bolts are made from. It pays to ask questions.

But also keep in mind leaf spring U bolts can be made from other steels. This spring shops uses 1560 but others may use alloy. You should always ask.

Edited by B Finnigan, 20 October 2010 - 06:56 PM.

[WmHorus]

But arent those bolts galvanized since they are exposed to the elements?

[Pat B]

1560?? I am unaware of that steel... what can you use it for smithing wise?

[B Finnigan]

Nope and neither are the springs. Even if they were bending, swaging and cutting the threads would remove some of it. They would have to galvanize them after the swaging, forming and threading process. So each spring shop would have to have galvanizing tanks. They aren't going to mess with that aspect.

Edited by B Finnigan, 20 October 2010 - 07:01 PM.

[B Finnigan]

1560?? I am unaware of that steel... what can you use it for smithing wise?

Gotta learn your steel identification. with 1560 "1" denotes plain carbon. The "5" denotes .5% of the highest alloy present. The last two digits are points of carbon. 60 means .60 (3/5ths) carbon.

I have this posted over on Primal Fires.


"UNS Classification

Under this system, steels are assigned a series of 4-5 numbers. The first number tells us the primary alloying element or elements, with 1 being plain carbon steel containing no significant alloying element. The second number represents the approximate percentage of the primary alloying elements. The final numbers indicate the approximate carbon content of the steel in hundredths of one percent. Let's take a look.
1 - Plain Carbon (not an alloy steel)
2 - Nickel
3 - Chromium and Nickel
4 - Molybdenum
5 - Chromium
6 - Chromium and Vanadium
7 - Tungsten
8 - Nickel, Chromium and Molybdenum
9 - Silicon and Manganese
Let's start with an easy one. With 1084 the first digit tells us that this is a plain carbon steel. The second digit shows that there are no alloying elements. The final two digits show that the steel contains approximately .84 percent carbon. Pretty simple. How about 52100? The first digit shows that the primary alloying element is chromium. The second digit means that there is approximately 2 percent chromium (this is rounded off). The last group of numbers show that the carbon content is roughly 1 percent.
One thing that puzzled me for awhile was the second digit. If a steel is classified as 50xx, then is it a chromium steel with no chromium? No. It is a low chromium steel. For example, 50100 contains about .45 percent chromium. The .45 is not enough to round up to 1 percent, so it gets the value of 0. 52100 usually contains about 1.5 percent chromium, so it gets rounded up to a value of 2. A good way to look at the 5xxx types of steel is:
h 50xxx = low chromium
h 51xxx = medium chromium
h 52xxx = high chromium"

So IMHO it would be a great forging steel.

Edited by B Finnigan, 20 October 2010 - 07:04 PM.

[Matt Bower]

Absolutely. Deeper-hardening 1060. Nothing wrong with that.

[B Finnigan]

I did some searching and leaf spring U bolts can be all over the map in what steel is used. And some pre-made kits can have different protective coatings which includes galvanizing.

Some are 1018, 1045, 4140/42 So ask questions and if they don't know then you could end up with almost anything. Most established spring shops know the steel composition of their leaf, coil and fastening hardware.

1560 would be some great round stock for integrals, hammers and hawks. I am looking forward to playing with it.

Edited by B Finnigan, 20 October 2010 - 07:19 PM.

[Dan Scott]

Thanks for the info. There's a semi-large dump of cars off the cliff of a highway near Vantage, WA from which I scavenge my leaf springs (lotta tough work on rusty cars, but hey, nothing beats free). I never knew that U-bolts could actually be of use, but I might go back there and pick up all the U-bolts that I just tossed and see if they HT well.

-Dan

[Pat B]

yepI recall what they mean haha, I was more wondering what the uses you would have for it were, I did not word my thoughts clearly enough..ive never heard of the steel before so it seemed a interestign thing. Im half dead this week from trying to convince my university to be helpful for once..starting to feel like a zombie as of late

[B Finnigan]

I have to double check it myself if I am going to work with a new steel. Just knowing the last two numbers represents the C content is big step. So if I see a unfamiliar steel with a 55 or higher last two numbers I immediately know I am in potential blade territory. Then when you start getting into claying/hamons you need to know the Mg and Cr content. Every alloy in carbon steel can either add or subtract from what your goal may be.

But I am glad to have found that there is a mid carbon simple steel in rounds, cheap and easy to get. A big void in my forging world has just been filled.

[R.Harrell]

U bolts huh....well I have some U bolts from a lowering block kit I had for and truck of mine. I have some pictures of the lowering blocks actually and I am also wondering if the black itself is good enough steel to be forged into something. I wonder if the block is a tool steel, then it would be nice to try and forge a hammer head out of one. Or send it to someone who could. How do I go about finding out what kind of steel the u bolts and the block is? Can you tell from just looking at it? I doubt it and I know that might be a dumb question, I just had to ask.







The u bolts dont have those screws attached to them I just have them screwed on with a washer. The pictures were actually for craigslist when I was trying to sell them. ( no luck though) So I hope to get some use out of them at the forge!

[B Finnigan]

You can spark test it and do a quench test. About all that would do is tell if it's alloy or mild. But if it has a feathery spark then it would be great for a hammer at least.

I may get a "wild hair" and start selling it if the spring shop can give me a good quantity price. They had a whole shelf of blanks in different dia.

[R.Harrell]

now when you say spark test them, how exactly do I go about doing that?

[B Finnigan]

Do a search here for "spark testing" and you may find some photos of what carbon steel sparks coming off a grinder look like compared to iron/mild steel. Or you can grind some mild yourself and then some known carbon steel and observe the difference in color and shape of the sparks.

Edited by B Finnigan, 25 October 2010 - 12:51 PM.

[R.Harrell]

Oh ok I got ya Ill do it and see what happens. And then I will let you guys know what I get out it. Thanks for the info though, it is all really helpful and I have learned so much you guys and this site, so I thank you all for that.

[Willman]

The blocks look cast, if they are, they will still throw a good spark but you won't be able to forge them.
willman

[Tarnick]

I sometimes us mac truck springs, and draw them down to what I want. When a spring breaks and they take it off a truck, the trucking companies have no use for them. If you ask around you can usually get them free.

[randy tibbs]

I'm fortunate to have a spring shop close by, about 5 miles. Here I am in a rural area and thee is a shop like that so close. Alas though studebaker springs he don't have.